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Topic: The Veterans Administration and Medical Marijuana

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George
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The Veterans Administration and Medical Marijuana
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I am a disabled Vietnam Veteran.

I have been taking morphine for my disability for 10 years.
Yesterday instead telling the VA doctor a lie, I told him I have a medical marijuana card and he could expect to see THC in my random urine test (more like a profiled urine test.) I also told the doctor I was able to lower my morphine dosage because of the medical marijuana I was using. I told him I would like to totally get off the morphine some day.
When I returned home, his nurse called me asking me to sign a release of information form, so they could contact the doctor who wrote me a medical marijuana prescription and ask them why they prescribed it and how much I was using. This is an odd request, but no problem, whatever. They had never had a medical marijuana patient before.

When I went to the doctor’s office to sign the release of information form, his nurse gave me a letter from the doctor.

The letter said; because I tested positive for marijuana in my urine, I was in violation of the law (because in the state of Arizona there is no place to legally purchase medical marijuana, “No legally authorized dispensary in Arizona”.) The doctor went on to say, because I was breaking the law and in violation of the morphine agreement, I was not going to be prescribed narcotic medications again. This is a major problem with my health care treatment.


Of course this doctor does not know what he is talking about. I know the MM law.
I may receive medical marijuana from growing it, I may get it from other MM card holders and receive it from caregivers. I know this, but the VA has not done their background work with their doctors.
This indicates to me how the government is not training there doctors at VA hospitals and clinics.


I am arranging a meeting with the VA Patient Advocates Office to discuss this uninformed doctor next week.


But when you deal with the government, specifically the US military, logical thinking about the law is always in question. They make up rules as they go along.


I am hoping for some feedback from you all. Thanks



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TMM Jay
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George, Im really surprised as the scuttlebutt is the VA is getting ready to start prescribing mmj

Sure cut back on my opiates



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TMM Jay
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“If a veteran obtains and uses medical marijuana in a manner consistent with state law, testing positive for marijuana would not preclude the veteran from receiving opioids — narcotic painkillers which include morphine, oxycodone and methadone — for pain management,” Petzel wrote, adding “the discretion to prescribe, or not prescribe, opioids in conjunction with medical marijuana, should be determined on clinical grounds.”

Under the previous policy, local VA clinics in some of the 14 states had opted to allow the use of medical marijuana because there had been no rule explicitly barring them from doing so.

Source: redOrbit (http://s.tt/168i6)

"However, it is acknowledged that testing positive for marijuana in a patient, based upon a random drug screening, will not serve as a breach of the current pain management agreement if the patient submits documentation in support of the marijuana being prescribed and dispensed in conformity with Michigan law."



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TMM Jay
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This is to start this subject.



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stir dankos
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i know theres a law that says you cannot test positive for medical mj if your taking opiates or high strength pain killers. some patients know of doctors that look the other way when it comes to mj and pain pills. unfortuneatley for most going by the law you cannot test dirty and still get your pain pills from what i heard.

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TMM Jay
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What do you mean stir?

Are you referring to the VA?



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stir dankos
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nah just pain doctors in general. not shure if they go by the same laws and stuff..

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George
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The Department of Veteran Affairs published a letter to clarify their position on Medical Marijuana in July of 2010. Go to this link to see the letter from the head of the VA Health Services. Copy and paste it to a search engine to read.

 http://www.veteransformedicalmarijuana.org/files/Undersecretary-Jun6.pdf

 This letter indicates the VA will continue to prescribe opiods to medical marijuana patients who conduct themselves within the state laws they live. The VA doctor will look into possible interactions with the medications taken and medical marijuana.

The problem is with educating the Veterans Administration. 

 



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George
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I hope so you are correct about "kicking butt", but the VA has a way to screw you when they want.

When I called to make an appointment with the VA's Advocates office. The receptionist asked me what the meeting was in regards to; when I told her about the doctor not being correct about medical marijuana. The receptionist told me I was incorrect. 

So I want to have all the data I can obtain. Thanks



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Stella
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Dealing with the beaucracy of the VA is an impossible task. When I informed by VA doc of my newest prescribed medication, she just acknowledged me and said good luck with all sincerity. Boy did I get lucky! Still, fighting the VA is an impossible battle, but I wish you the best of luck and look forward to a positive outcome.

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George
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Stella, So a VA doc didn't care? My last VA doc told me he would never give me a drug test. You can get a good doctor, but difficult.
I wish there was a blog forum to discuss VA doctors at local clinics. I wonder if there are forums for discussing non-VA doctors.
According to the VA and their own rules, I read the doctor is suppose to note that you are a MMC holder in a special record of yours.
Funny how I know their own rules better than they do.

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Stella
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With as fast as the VA seems to go through doctor's and all the rules and regulations the VA has it's probably impossible for the doctors to possibly know everything. The system is broke and screwed up. I certainly have no answers.

I didn't see my doc write down anything when I told her of my mmj use (and I hope she didn't), but I wouldn't doubt she did. She's been my doc for about a year which is the longest I've had the same doc since I've been with the VA. I wouldn't doubt she's pert near burnt out and on the way out the door like most....

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George
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Well I went to the VA advocates office Tuesday and presented a 7 page complaint report I typed up against the VA doctor. I quoted state current and Veterans Health Administration law. I think I made my case.

Obviousness to me the Tucson VA does not recognized medical marijuana as of yet. It appears that I am blazing the trail for other veterans at the VA hospital in Tucson. I blindsided them with this issue.

It has been 3 days now and I haven't heard a word from the VA. I think a longer time this is a good sign, the VA may have to implement training for their staff.


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Stella
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I to am waiting with baited breath.

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George
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I just found out from the VA Tucson advocate, the VA is siding with the doctor, if he doesn't want to prescribe pain medications, he doesn't have to.
According to the advocate, the head pharmacist at the Tucson VA made the decision based on one line in the documentation I gave them.
Dr. Petzel (undersecretary of the VA healthcare system) wrote in a clarification letter; "The discretion to prescribe or not to prescribe opioids in conjunction with medical marijuana, should be determined on clinical grounds, and thus will remain at the discretion of the individual healthcare provider. The provider will take the use of medical marijuana into account in all prescribing decisions, just as the provider would for any other medication. This is a case by case decision, based on the providers judgement, and the needs of the patient."

So I have little pain medication left and most of all the doctor is not treating me for my trembling.
I read my VA files yesterday and the doctors says in my appointment, "I didn't notice any trembling". The doctor didn't examine me for the trembling, he told me he was going to look at my blood test results and after ruling out diabetes, he would recommend me to a neurologist. But he must of forgot about this problem I have. He is too caught up in discontinuing me from all medications.

I cannot believe it! I need health care more than any other time in my life, I serve in a military war, follow the law and get screwed by a couple doctors from "old school".

Help anyone!!!

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SubterfuGE
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Disabled Iraq vet here.....

Brother we are paddling the same ****ty boat. I was told to choose. And if i went in and gave a dirty UA, id lose ALL va health care for 6 months. I was terribly addicted to OXys so i deal with the pain. It sucks but id rather smoke and have a bit of pain relief and have my head fixed, than take pain pilss and be crazy again..haha.



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George
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Hi guy,

They never gave me a choice. Otherwise I would of beat them already.

I don't have a problem with giving them clean urine. Just freeze your urine when you only have the meds you are soppose to have in you. It will last a year or more in a cold freezer.

When it times to take a urine test. Defrost the urine in warm water. Make sure the temperature is about 99 or so. Keep it hidden, of course.

I have used it twice and never caught.

When I gave the VA urine with THC in it, I thought I was legal.

Still fighting with the VA.

The head pharmacist says " the doctor has decision." But the VA policy also says " the decision should be based on clinical grounds."

We'll see. 



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Rick Eagleheart
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if you live close to the nw clinic request dr. lindsley.



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George
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Replacing the doctor would be a great idea, only thing is I live near 22nd and Craycroft, I go to the SE clinic. I'm sure the VA will want a phyisical address near the NW clinic. Great idea though. Wish I knew someone on that side of town.

Still waiting on the written offical word from the Tucson VA. It's been a month now.

Vets can appeal the answer the VA give them. That may be the next direction. If I get shot down.



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George
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With your recommend Dr. Lindsey at the NW clinic, who good of a doctor is she. We are talking about a VA doctor at the NW clinic right.

Does she support Medical marijuana? Does she get into the polotics of the VA health system? My is all over my name at the VA. I want to change doctors but she is not allowed to give me narcatics for my pain only because the VA tell him/her not to. 

What do you think.

I'm ready to find a freind that live near the NW clinic and say I moved and use their address for the VA.

Please reply.

George



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George
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My fight with the VA about prescribing morphine in conjunction with medical marijuana is over.

This is after writing letters to the Tucson VA director, the head of the VA in Washington, the head of VA ethics, and 3 letters to the doctor.

They finally understood I am not breaking any Arizona law or VA policy.
The Tucson VA decided to continue prescribing morphine to me.

If a veteran needs my assistance with regards to a similar situation, I would be happy to assist.

I fought the government and won!!!

George


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RX420
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Congratz George, Good job for sticking with it..as a Vet I also know Its never easy battling with the goverment....



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